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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
127
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Posted - 2015.04.21 04:02:47 -
[1] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:Well the rokh is a hybrid turret boat, and the navy scorp is a missile boat for one. And using the term "kite" on a BS is alil far fetched, no?
Can it be done? Yes. But it is not the intended role of the ship. Thats more mach/bharg territory. Stich dear, what I meant was the navy scorpion moves with the mobility of the Rokh and close to the same amount of tank. According to the battleship rebalance thread the 'role' of the Raven was 'fast moving attack battleship', so it is just a quote. If we were to follow the tiericide approach vision, the Navy Scorpion would have been a tankier Scorpion but instead she isn't a super-tanky ecm-boat. The Golem is not a Raven improvement but a special case boat. I wanted to reflect that tech2 is not better than tech one but different. Our pirate faction ships are the top improvements of two worlds and should always be seen at the top of the performance pyramid.
You have defecated so much wrong into this discussion that even if any of your statements were correct they are now wrong because of the stain of your horrendous posting.
Everything you have said in this thread, is hereby wrong. Very wrong. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
129
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Posted - 2015.04.21 04:51:55 -
[2] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:You have defecated so much wrong into this discussion that even if any of your statements were correct they are now wrong because of the stain of your horrendous posting.
Everything you have said in this thread, is hereby wrong. Very wrong. And YOU have zero credibility and nobody believes anything you ever say. So stop talking altogether and keep it in your purse.
I am just going to Kite your comments in my Erebus of thought  |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
129
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Posted - 2015.04.22 00:47:10 -
[3] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Caleidascope wrote:baltec1 wrote:Yuri Gagarijn wrote:How much SP do you recommend for the RS? Im just playing for two or three months. 1) I would say go for the raven 2) and use it for level 3 missions to get used to the ship class. 1 is good advice. 2 is bad advice. No it is sound advice. Level 3 missions are far less dangerous than diving right into level 4 missions and will allow the OP to use the battleship with far fewer skills both in terms of SP and piloting.
I think the point they were trying to make is a Raven is a horrible choice for L3 missions and they are correct. However I see what you want the OP to accomplish so I understand your reasoning for the suggestion. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
129
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Posted - 2015.04.23 23:22:32 -
[4] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:
I think the point they were trying to make is a Raven is a horrible choice for L3 missions and they are correct. However I see what you want the OP to accomplish so I understand your reasoning for the suggestion.
Slap RHML on it and its not too shabby. ( It earns more than an ishtar in lvl 3 blitzing) Its not a mach thats for sure.
If he has the skills to properly use RHML then he has no business being in a raven. I get the point was to have him learn how to use a Golem one day... but RHML and cruise and RHML and torps are completely different beasts. With the current price of pirate BS and navy BS I see no reason not to have him start in an overtanked SNI or Rattle or RNI. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
129
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Posted - 2015.04.24 15:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:baltec1 wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:
I think the point they were trying to make is a Raven is a horrible choice for L3 missions and they are correct. However I see what you want the OP to accomplish so I understand your reasoning for the suggestion.
Slap RHML on it and its not too shabby. ( It earns more than an ishtar in lvl 3 blitzing) Its not a mach thats for sure. If he has the skills to properly use RHML then he has no business being in a raven. I get the point was to have him learn how to use a Golem one day... but RHML and cruise and RHML and torps are completely different beasts. With the current price of pirate BS and navy BS I see no reason not to have him start in an overtanked SNI or Rattle or RNI. so if he has the skills to use rhml he shouldnt be in a raven but should be in a rattlesnake which uses 2 different (long train) weapon systems? what use will a rattler be in a mission if his drone, cruise and core skills are subpar
There was two points there but the boat seemed to pass by you.
If he has the skills to properly use RHML then he should be in a rattle with RHML for level 3's. Not a Raven
If he doesn't have skills to PROPERLY use RHML then he needs to be in one of the higher DPS/High tank hulls that cost so little right now that it doesn't matter.
If you are going to run level 3's to train for level 4's you are in for a bit of a surprise as they are different kind of missions. Level 3's dont have the trigger concerns and there isn't the need to dedicate ship size priorities. Level 4's you want to watch your triggers, figure out your blitz methods and finally come up with a plan to eliminate small scramming frigs before or during your mitigation of DPS.
As others have pointed out, a Rattlesnake is the king right now for DPS and it does very well in the tank department. Whether the advise is to start at Level 3 or to jump into Level 4 the ship to do both is the same. Rattlesnake. But a SNI or RNI is still better than a Raven. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
129
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Posted - 2015.04.26 00:38:26 -
[6] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Tiddle Jr wrote:W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Did you read the stuff above? Of all bs the rattler is the easiest to train into, its harder to maximize but to reach 750+ dps easily you need to spend like a week of training as its main damage comes from its role bonus.
Do you ever run lvl3 with Rattler, please be honest here. Only missions i ever do are lvl 5s. (but i almost never do those). But how does that matter?
As much as I disagree on his point in the pvp thread, I have to say that he is spot on here.
Low SP rattle is far more effective than low sp Raven. With the low sp rattle you can throw out your drones, have plenty of tank and have missiles to back you up. With the raven if you are low sp you are either doing missions with the wrong weapon type, using crappy unbonused drones and you are slow.
Rattle is a great lvl 3 ship if you dont care about warp speed, and in this case blitzing is not what we are trying to teach the OP, mission running is. Rattle isn't some mystical creature needing 100mil sp to use. It is a Domi with Missile support. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
129
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Posted - 2015.04.26 04:17:37 -
[7] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I think the Rattlesnake is potentially more forgiving for newer players.
How? Two weapon systems to train for so it takes twice as long to train. Two lines of battleship are required to be trained. You have two weapons to use so you have twice as much work in that area. Drones require you to look after them and the rattle is not bonuses for light/med drones. The raven is much easier to get into, cheaper, easier to use and fit. The rattle is something to aim for after you have been in the raven not before.
Because even at level 3 in each BS line, each weapon system type it will still out damage and with better application a Raven.
You can out damage a fully level V skilled Raven pilot in a Rattle piloted by a player with level 4 skills. It is just that simple. Again, Raven is not a good choice for level 3, you get all the draw backs of using a BS in a level 3 without the benefit of more dps. Rattle is also a ship that the OP can continue to skill and get better and better, where a Raven the pilot has to change weapon skills to get better and get a new hull.
What you are proposing is the OP get a Raven and skill for heavy missiles, then after "mastering" that he start skilling for cruise or torp, skill for Rattle (which means drones) or a Golem (very long skill train) and then sell his hull for upgrade.
What the rattle offers is to train for heavies and drones (which he already has) and use a ship that today gets him more DPS, more tank and better application of damage. Then tomorrow when he is level V his Rattle is only that much more amplified.
You are asking him to waste time and skills on something he wont fly tomorrow. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
129
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Posted - 2015.04.26 04:33:20 -
[8] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Because even at level 3 in each BS line, each weapon system type it will still out damage and with better application a Raven.
You can out damage a fully level V skilled Raven pilot in a Rattle piloted by a player with level 4 skills. It is just that simple. Again, Raven is not a good choice for level 3, you get all the draw backs of using a BS in a level 3 without the benefit of more dps. Rattle is also a ship that the OP can continue to skill and get better and better, where a Raven the pilot has to change weapon skills to get better and get a new hull.
What you are proposing is the OP get a Raven and skill for heavy missiles, then after "mastering" that he start skilling for cruise or torp, skill for Rattle (which means drones) or a Golem (very long skill train) and then sell his hull for upgrade.
What the rattle offers is to train for heavies and drones (which he already has) and use a ship that today gets him more DPS, more tank and better application of damage. Then tomorrow when he is level V his Rattle is only that much more amplified.
You are asking him to waste time and skills on something he wont fly tomorrow.
Remind me, what battleship skill is required for the raven and the rattle? Also, tell us what weapon system both ships get bonuses to? Zero time is wasted here, the skills you get for the raven are the very same skills you need for the rattle. Also remember, I put a lot of time into a level 3 raven on a new pilot so I know exactly what it can do. The rattle was also tested and it is slower simply because of the way drones work. DPS isn't everything here.
You want the OP to train heavy missiles and fly a Raven then switch to a Golem with Cruise.
I want the OP to max his skills to fly a Rattle while actually flying a Rattle all the while a better choice both now and in the future for him.
Your testing of the Ishtar vs Mach has little to do with a Rattle vs Raven.
I don't see why you continue to argue this |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
129
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Posted - 2015.04.26 17:21:28 -
[9] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:W0lf Crendraven wrote:[A 2 month old character deals way more dps and tanks way more in the rattlesnake then in any other ship in game due to how well it scales with almost no skills making it the perfect ship for newer players. Aside from the cost difference (the Rattlesnake being about 2.1x more), even with minimal drone skills it's going to fare quite well. Raven - Caldari Battleship I ... 6.32 effective launchers Rattlesnake - Gallente Battleship I ... 5.5 effective launchers plus drone DPS (Geckos are insanely easy to train into).
Dont forget the survivability, the resists on a RS are higher, and the EHP much much higher.
RS is just all around a better choice for the new and the old player. Raven is a horrible option for Level 3 or level 4. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
129
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Posted - 2015.04.26 22:54:30 -
[10] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:If we are going to push the OP towards high damage pirate battleships then we might as well say train for the mach.
Mach does not scale well to low skill players. T1 arties and ACs and the lack of ability to properly use a MJD or MWD would be a death sentence in a ship that already has tank issues and relies on DPS for tank.
Rattle is not just a high damage pirate BS, it is a High Damage/High Survivability multipurpose Pirate BS. It honestly is OP, but that is ok. It just happens to be one of the most perfect ships to learn missions in, and also to train to its full potential. Years ago it was the RNI, then the HML Tengu, now its Rattle for kill all and Mach for blitz and Golem for easy street. Mach and Golem are skill intensive, Rattle is good right at lvl 3 across the board and training for one can be done in 30 days. Your skills just make it better with time. |
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